with Don Carroll and Christian Haye

Most visual artists want to show their work at galleries. However, just as many are unsure of how to begin their careers. To help demystify the process of beginning a career as an artist, NYFA Source Senior Program Officer Melissa Potter interviewed Don Carroll and Christian Haye, both of whom oversee contemporary art galleries with adventurous and diverse programming. Carroll is co-director of the Williamsburg, Brooklyn-based Jack the Pelican Presents and Haye owns Projectile, which is based in both Manhattan and Los Angeles.

Coco Fusco Four stills from a/k/a Mrs. George Gilbert (2004) Single-channel DVD Courtesy Projectile

Melissa Potter: What’s the best way for artists seeking representation to approach galleries? Do you accept unsolicited portfolios and have you ever found an artist to work with in this way?

Don Carroll: I’d say that at least a third of the artists we show we first encountered cold. We often show artists we discover from unsolicited submissions. Getting a good submission is one of the best things about being a gallerist. Ever day’s a little bit like Christmas. I think artists are often surprised to actually hear from us, sometimes even a year after they dropped their packet in the mail. The best way to approach us is to respect the fact that we are super-busy putting out fires most of the time. Be patient, and most of all, get to the point. You have three seconds. Give us five images on a disc—small JPEGs that are fast to open. You’ll know if we want more. If your work is really weird, a short statement helps. Some brief résumé is cool, too. Less is more. Cover letters and long wordy notes mean nothing. Beautiful presentation isn’t necessary, but it does show a level of professionalism, which is important. Know who you are and say it in ten words or less. If you have a website, just send us the URL. And skip the Flash. It’s an information delivery system and we don’t have the patience to figure out your innovative navigations. If you send a disc, please don’t expect it back. And make sure you mark the disc itself with your name and contact info. (That’s why some artists never get called.) If you try to corner us during regular gallery hours or in our spare time, that’s already a strike against you. By far the most important thing is to know our program. Random scattergun solicitations are very annoying. Why would we go out with you if you’ll take just anyone? Or maybe we’re just your second choice and it shows. And just because we did a show of striped paintings doesn’t mean we like striped paintings. Before you contact us, make the effort to figure out what we’re up to.

Christian Haye: My first experiences actively engaging with art (as opposed to being a viewer with no professional agenda) came from being a critic. That said, my engagement with every artist I’ve worked with comes from seeing their work first and meeting the artist later. Work needs to be seen in its ideal setting. Therefore, I strongly encourage all artists to invite gallerists, critics, and whomever else to exhibitions and not to send slides.

MP: What would you suggest for an artist who doesn’t possess social contacts within the art world but is eager to begin showing her work publicly?

CH: Nonprofit spaces are the best places for virgin artists to get experience. In very competitive cities with extensive nonprofit support like New York or San Francisco, it’s usually the curator’s mission to bring things never seen before to an audience. I don’t recommend even showing with a gallery unless you’ve already exhibited a few times. Having that experience under one’s belt allows the artist to understand how to engage gallerists and other art professionals.

DC: Cynicism among artists about galleries and needing contacts is a little ridiculous. Remember that in order to survive, galleries need to grow. Everyone in the art world is super-desperate for the next cool thing. And just because you know someone means nothing. Doesn’t mean they support your work when you’re out of earshot. Or that galleries pay heed to their suggestions. It’s really about the work. And our eyes are open.

(Left to right) Peter Caine Sister Wendy (2005) Talking animatronic sculpture on commode Jennifer Sad (Little Sis) (2005) Seated animatronic sculpture Images courtesy Jack the Pelican Presents

MP: How important is a graduate school degree when you’re considering an artist to represent?

CH: I find it of no importance, especially given the number of artists with graduate degrees today and being churned out every year. However, graduate school exhibitions are, like nonprofit spaces, a good place for people to see work.

DC: We never look at the education bit on the résumé. Got my MFA at Yale myself. So I know firsthand that a lot of sucky artists went there, too. Sometimes you’ll find in retrospect that the better artists went to the better programs. Often not. What impresses me most is artists who never went to art school at all. Like Peter Caine. Doesn’t mean they’re “outsider,” just that they’re less apt to be canned. There may be gallerists who are out of touch with the emerging artist community who shop the thesis shows. That’s largely because they’re serving collectors hungry for fresh young blood. From this perspective, it’s far less important where you went than when. Sadly, the powers that be promote a sell-by-date vision of artists. All that said, stellar art programs often attract ambitious students and demand rigor. So, believe it or not, they can actually be good for you and get you where you need to be as an artist a little sooner.

MP: What type of work is characteristic of the current New York art world and what type of work are each of you currently attracted to? Could you offer a few examples?

DC: Seems that we’re in the reign of style over substance. God forbid something be smart, lest a potential collector (or “critic”) of limited intellectual investment might feel sub-par. Also, anything that smacks of youth makes the cash register sing. Especially cool bad youth. Not just in subject matter but attitude as well. Unattractive, threatening, or really boring subjects have the cache of dis-invested emotional distance. And that’s the style that’s passing for intelligence. Jack the Pelican goes against the grain. Substance plus ambition turns us on. We like our dorks to stumble, and if we’re talking sincerity, well, let it be sweet. We don’t really care if work is pretty or not so long as its credible—if it is what it is and knows it.

Barkley Hendricks Something Like A Bird, Double Barbara (1982) Oil, acrylic, and variegation leaf on canvas Courtesy Projectile

CH: Two entirely different questions! The New York art world is overly dominated by commercial galleries. This is a phase which won’t end but the alpha hat will eventually be passed back to critics or curators. Personally, if everyone is zigging I’m always inclined to zag. The focus now seems to be on painting. I work with over 20 artists and only three are painters. The latest artist I’m working with is a 60 year-old painter, Barkley Hendricks, whose work I’ve admired for years. Which brings me to another pet peeve about the commercial art world: as a commercial gallerist, I always find it easier to sell (both commercially and critically) an emerging artist as opposed to a mid-career artist. The art world seems to share the cruelty of pop culture in that its interests are focused on the right now. I entered the art world via the literary world, which seems (although opposing arguments can be made) to have much more respect for maturity.

MP: What other cities currently have vibrant art scenes? Is it more important for an artist to gain recognition in New York as opposed to, say, Miami or Los Angeles?

DC: I think Texas is cool. Houston has been vibrant for years. And, oddly enough, Dallas seems to be a hornet’s nest of interesting artists. Trouble is, it really lacks the support to push its local artists to any kind of ambition. Los Angeles has been a vital and integral part of the art world for decades. Especially good art schools. But it’s very self-contained. Chicago seems to have lost national stature, but is a real city teeming with surprises. Boston will always like pretty. Portland, OR, wants to explode, but Seattle and Portland can’t mobilize to support their artists as much as they deserve. Philadelphia is ready to make real contributions. But yes, for the time being, getting seen in Miami is huge. Small art community, though, and what’s really spotlighted there during Basel (when Miami owns the art world) is usually not so local. To a lesser extent, and in a very strange way, Santa Fe is huge. Especially under the auspices of Site Santa Fe. But you can’t have a real art world in the absence of art criticism. In the end, you can never beat any kind of exposure in NYC. And while there are those Upper East Siders who’d rather see art in Washington, DC, than Brooklyn, Williamsburg will for the foreseeable future be the sinister conscience of NYC. And that matters in the age of one-stop art shopping. Europe, for galleries like us, is the new frontier. They are paying attention. But, for any artist, the important thing is to build connections with other artists and galleries everywhere. That’s one good thing about art fairs—gallerists are starting to realize that there are like-minded galleries everywhere and we support each other because we realize that we’re stronger when we stand together and stand up for each other and share resources.

CH: Miami does not have a vibrant art scene per se as much as a vibrant scene. LA does, in fact, have it all: quality museums (often times more forward-thinking than NY institutions), quality artists, nonprofit spaces (although NY has the undisputable edge there), and collectors/patrons. Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, Boston, and many other cities (like Santa Fe and San Juan) have great things happening, but nothing beats NYC for the proper alchemy of everything.

The Icelandic Love Corporation Crystal Rain (2004) C-Print Courtesy Jack the Pelican Presents

MP: Projectile has performance artists such as Coco Fusco and William Pope.L on its roster, and Jack the Pelican has recently presented shows by performers/provocateurs like Gil & Moti and the Icelandic Love Corporation. Although each of you has supported performance artists, do you think artists whose work emphasizes performance tend to be swept under the rug by galleries because their work isn’t saleable?

CH: A terrible secret about 95% of commercial galleries is that half of all shows don’t sell. Knowing this, I would always prefer to fill the space with things I want to see as opposed to what has the possibility of selling.

DC: Yes, performance art is difficult to sell. But you do what you do because it’s worth doing. The exciting thing is that there are enlightened collectors who feel the same way and support powerful visions no matter what the medium is. This is something we had to learn. When we try to sell polite paintings to hang over the couch, we fall on our face. Why would anyone buy that kind of thing from us when you could just get it at the mall? Most of the performance artists we work with have a larger vision that materializes in all sorts of ways. We’re not fancy about strategizing how we can sell the work, but if they happen to create something they believe in, we’re happy to put a price on it. Because that rent ain’t cheap.

MP: How possible is it for an artist to live exclusively on artwork sales through a gallery? What do some of your artists do to supplement their income from gallery sales?

CH: Like actors, we always seem to focus on the people whose work sells for the most. Too often the capitalist impulse supersedes the critical one. It’s a sucky world, and we have to live through it and do what little we can to make the world we want.

DC: We’re not at the stage yet where we can sell enough of anyone’s work for them to live on that alone. Despite what anyone says, we believe the art sells itself. But it takes time to get it in front of the right people. It’s a process and it’s building for us and in some cases we’re getting close. The artist never gets enough; it’s really sad, considering how much work goes into a career. But our artists take some consolation in the fact that we who work at Jack the Pelican support their endeavors for nothing at all. It’s a labor of love…although I hear duck painting pays well.

MP: Have recent economic fluctuations in the US changed what type of work your galleries seek?

DC: Hmmm. Can’t say we’re all that attuned to economic fluctuations. Collectors need confidence. And for some of them, that might mean having gobs of discretionary income. But I think it’s never easy even for them. Because they’ve got the bug and they’ll always spend more than they can afford. Those fluctuations may put us out of business some day. But you can’t really second-guess the market. You just have to go with what you know is good.

CH: Not at all. I opened a gallery because I was naïve and thought my aesthetic agenda had merit. I still have a gallery because I’m still determined to prove I’m right.

For more information on Jack the Pelican Presents and Projectile, visit:
www.jackthepelicanpresents.com
www.elproyecto.com